Monday, November 14, 2005

They should be ashamed to call themselves democrats


In blatant defiance of the Constitution's guarantees of Habeas Corpus and separation of powers, the Senate on Thursday approved the Graham Amendment to the Department of Defense Authorization Act by a vote of 49 to 42. Five Democrats joined all but 4 Republican Senators in giving the President unfettered power to hold prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, for the rest of their lives, with no criminal charges, and no right to challenge their confinement by Habeas Corpus....


The Democrats who voted in favor of the Graham Amendment were Joseph Lieberman (Conn.), Kent Conrad (N.D.), Ben Nelson (Neb), Mary L. Landrieu (La), and Ron Wyden (Or).


Blogger Old Gary said...

Aren't prisoners of war detained until the END of the war?

5:36 PM  
Blogger Marshallmallow said...

Prisoners of war must receive due process and fair trials. (Convention III, Art. 82 through Art. 88)

Look it up.

10:39 AM  
Blogger Old Gary said...

So how many U.S. prisoners of war in the two World Wars, Korea, and Viet Nam received "due process and fair trials?"

The Geneva Convention applies only to UNIFORMED members of a country's armed forces. Iraqi insurgents are not uniformed members of any country. They are terrorists from several different countries.

12:45 PM  
Blogger Marshallmallow said...

I believe it clearly says "prisioners of war."

Insurgents? You're too funny!

If the current government is legitimate and established (cough), then the term can considered valid.

A partisan is a member of a irregular military force formed to oppose control of an area by a foreign power or by an army of occupation.

Or you can try Resistance Movement is a group dedicated to fighting an invader in an occupied country. The term can also refer to any organized effort by supporters of a common goal against a constituted authority. You know like we did to the "established" English rule in the infancy of the US. Let's not mention the French in WW2 and on and on.

Of course, it's just a country of TERRORISTS anyway! I know that's the word you really like.

Makes you moist eh?

And your're right since we haven't paid much attention to the Geneva Convention in the past why bother now?


2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To quote old gary, "So how many U.S. prisoners of war in the two World Wars, Korea, and Viet Nam received "due process and fair trials?"

So, old gary, you believe in 'do unto others as they have done unto you', eh? Well, we aren't fighting the folks we fought in two World Wars, Korea, and Viet Nam. This is different and the United States is suppossed to be the "good guys"! The US is suppossed to be better than our enemies. The US is suppossed to stand on higher moral ground and to set the example for the rest of the world to follow! BUT the United States isn't doing any of that! Bush and his mafia have turned the United States into a bully and a thug and you're just along for the ride!

Take off the rose colored glasses and look at the situation for what it really is... UGLY!

Willie B.

2:33 PM  
Blogger Old Gary said...

You two guys may be right, but I would bet that a large majority of the citizens of Iraq are secretly grateful for the U.S. and would laugh in your face for such fine distinctions. They remember the mass graves and Uday and Qusay.

I believe the current government of Iraq (cough, cough) is legitimate because they had an election, c'est ne pas?

Yeah, I am moist, from laughing at you two modern day Chamberlains.

4:12 PM  
Blogger Marshallmallow said...

Wonder where they buried all the 30,000 civilians killed (maybe you’d call that liberated?) by our “rescue from tyranny?” Mass graves are cheap after all.

Are you really towing the we were rescuing the noble Iraqi's fantasy? Really? That’s rich.

You know one man’s “legitimate government” is another’s puppet régime.

Oh and BIG surprise you’d imply (inaccurately if that’s what I’m supposed to get from the Chamberlain reference) that I'd of been a Nazi sympathizer, and ultra-conservative (strange?) to boot. Funny! You trolls have one note.

Yawn, learn a new trick please.

4:49 PM  
Blogger Old Gary said...

The islamic fundamentalists are the nazi worshippers. Guess who were allies of Germany in WWII? Their contempt of women and freedom is against everything we believe in. It's not Bush's fault that they are striving to sustain a dying, nihilistic culture. But don't believe me, ask the Iraqis who have been given the opportunity to vote.

6:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey old gary,
Thanks for taking us off topic here. We were discussing the treatment of prisoners. Can we stick to that topic please.

Same old strategy... when you can no longer defend your position, change the subject, call your opponents names and link them to Nazis. A debate is over once this happens.

So old gary, when are you getting that "L" tatoo on your giant forehead?

Willie B.

9:55 AM  
Blogger Old Gary said...

We are going to keep them locked up until they stop cutting people's heads off, until they stop bombing weddings, until they tolerate other religions in their countries, until they allow their women to drive cars, and until they switch to decaf.

1:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

old gary,
There's a no win situation here when it comes to the Iraqi prisoners. I can see it. Can you?

There's no question that they are prisoners of war and that they need to be detained. However, keeping these prisoners locked up and all of the while mentally & physically torturing and abusing them will not cure them of their fanatical hatred of the United States and her Allies. Upon release they will go right back to being insurgents and terrorists. What is the aim at Guantanamo? To hold prisoners and to keep them out of the fight, or to breed more fanatical terrorists?

The solution I see is this. Hold them, give them due process and fair trails, but DO NOT torture and abuse them. Will this keep them from becoming terrorists upon release? Doubtful. How do you deprogram the years of fanatical programing they have already undergone? I don't know that you can. I have no illusions here, but I do know that torture and abuse are wrong.

Willie B.

1:28 PM  
Anonymous lance hawk said...

You show real class, real class, not

11:11 PM  

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